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Post by yuefei on Jun 30, 2006 23:00:45 GMT -5
Personally I don't find anything wrong with it. Believe what you want to believe, and when the time comes (you die, or the world ends) then we'll know who's right and who's wrong. If people want to be taught religion, then go to a school which has a religion course. I know most public schools in Canada offer religious studies (various religions of course : Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, etc.) And the high school that I went to when I was younger, (which was a Catholic school BTW, even though I'm not Catholic.) Taught religions of the world (Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Sikhism, Aboriginal Spirituality, Shinto, Confucianism, Daoism, Materialism, Theism, Antitheism, Atheism (which most people interpret wrong. Atheists don't deny that a God exists, but they cannot prove that God exists. Antitheists say that there is no God), Humanism, etc.) You get my point, anyways in this course it basically ties all religions into one (ecumenical movement) and says that all religions are as one, and tie it to the Golden Rule "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you." (all religions have this saying, although it differs in terms of word usage.) Also just so you note. I am not a religious person. On the contrary, I hate religion but I have my beliefs (which are set and no one can change them).
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pHEN
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Posts: 260
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Post by pHEN on Jul 2, 2006 1:25:07 GMT -5
Personally I don't find anything wrong with it. Believe what you want to believe, and when the time comes (you die, or the world ends) then we'll know who's right and who's wrong. If people want to be taught religion, then go to a school which has a religion course. That works for higher-levels, but what about elementary school? Do you teach religion? When you have no class-choices, religion in schools is a recipe for disaster --- and that's what many evangelical groups in the US are pushing for. Incorrect, sorry. That would be agnosticism. Atheism is the belief that no god exists whereas Agnosticism is the belief that whether or not a god exists - it cannot be physically proven (and generally, that religion shouldn't be a part of society). To quote the ever-poopy wikipedia, "Agnosticism is the philosophical view that the (truth) values of certain claims—particularly theological claims regarding the existence of God, gods, or deities—are unknown, inherently unknowable, or incoherent, and therefore, (some agnostics may go as far to say) irrelevant to life." Do they also teach misanthropism? I disagree. If memory serves me, religious satanism doesn't have that rule. (the saying for them is - "Do as ye will shall be the whole of the law" or something similar) You don't sound like you hate religion. There is no non-religion because every belief is nothing more than a belief. Atheism is a religion. Belief includes subscribing yourself to an idea, and every religion or so-called (but hypocritically so) non-religion does just that. But whatever, the point isnt religion itself, but the implementation of religion in school. The main battles are Christian prayer time and the 10 commandments.
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Post by yuefei on Jul 2, 2006 15:12:49 GMT -5
Personally I find nothing wrong with prayer time. If Muslims are allowed time to pray, then shouldn't Christians have it as well? Also those beliefs are not a religion (Atheism, Agnosticism, Antitheism, Theism, etc.) They are not structured, have no place of worship, no heirarchy, etc. Religion is a combination of all those things. As to the Religious Satanism golden rule, it is "retaliation, returning like unto like" i.e. "Do onto others as they do onto you." Basically the same thing, except it is more of agression. As to me hating Religion, I do hate it. Basically I am a Christian, and Christianity isn't really a religion (well true Christianity isn't) It's a relationship. But anyways, you don't want me preaching to you about that. I figure that people believe what they want to believe, there is the option to choose what, and how you want to believe. If you choose to believe something, then do it. If you don't then you don't, it's that simple.
Atheism, in its broadest sense, is the absence of theism (the belief in the existence of deities). This encompasses both people who assert that there are no gods, and those who make no claim about whether gods exist or not. Narrower definitions of atheism, however, typically label as atheists only those people who affirmatively assert the nonexistence of gods, and classify other nonbelievers as agnostics or simply non-theists.
Another thing, most Atheists say that atheism is the lack of a belief, rather than a belief in it's own right.
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pHEN
Soldier
~ totmacher
Posts: 260
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Post by pHEN on Jul 3, 2006 15:13:18 GMT -5
Personally I find nothing wrong with prayer time. If Muslims are allowed time to pray, then shouldn't Christians have it as well? Indeed, however the whole idea of putting bible reading into school during a certain 'prayer time' seems a bit scary. Is it really? I would say not! A non-churchgoing Christian is still a Christian, however I agree that what you stated are beliefs and not religions. Religion includes belief. Belief is the most criticized part of Religion, yet nonreligious people still sign on to belief every day. Belief that there is no life after death (unkown), or even belief that the chair you are about to sit in will not collapse as you rest on it. And if we are to characterize religion as comprising of only belief, than by a stretch one could say that those above are religions. For the most part they aren't, though some of those groups become organized enough to fit the description of an organized belief system (religion). Forgive me, I was thinking of the teachings of Crowley... "'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law' is a moral utterance found in the Thelemic foundation scripture, which is called the Book of the Law." Indeed! That's very true. Most religions are, but the mainstream coimmericalizes everything. And you're left with flab. That would be the correct terminology for each. Atheism is a belief, not a non-belief. They're lying. Perhaps whoever is saying that is just trying to raise their own ego or comfort themselves. But belief in no god is a belief. Belief in god is a belief. Belief in the giant spaghetti monster is a belief. End of story. And since you apparently left, I guess end of debate.
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Post by General Pang on Jul 4, 2006 15:10:47 GMT -5
I think an important point is being missed-
People in the United States are FORCED to go to school or at least to get homeschooling. If they don't then they can be jailed for truancy. If you put prayer time in school then you are thus FORCING people to pray because they are forced to go to school. It should not be a requirement to be indoctrinated with Christian values.
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pHEN
Soldier
~ totmacher
Posts: 260
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Post by pHEN on Jul 4, 2006 19:30:02 GMT -5
Indeed. I am all for classes where one can choose to learn religion of various types, however required praying/bible reading is not ok with me. I would quote Havohej, but I'll refrain.
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Post by Huang Zhong on Jul 5, 2006 4:20:35 GMT -5
I think an important point is being missed- People in the United States are FORCED to go to school or at least to get homeschooling. If they don't then they can be jailed for truancy. If you put prayer time in school then you are thus FORCING people to pray because they are forced to go to school. It should not be a requirement to be indoctrinated with Christian values. There are public schools too... They don't pray or give religion there. So you go to that school, unless your parents want you to go to a school where religion is taught.
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Post by General Pang on Jul 5, 2006 13:12:55 GMT -5
My point though is that there should not be religion taught in public schools. That should be something kept for private institutions...
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Post by Huang Zhong on Jul 6, 2006 6:01:52 GMT -5
That's bullshit. You have public schools that teach religion, cause there are families that use religion. So they chose to send their kids to a public school where they give religion. And why? Well, cause not every family can afford their kids to send them to a private school. Besides, there are more thene enough religious families so public schools with religion are reachable too. It's the choice of the population. And you can't beat the anonymous mass. Not as long as you're not the dictator
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pHEN
Soldier
~ totmacher
Posts: 260
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Post by pHEN on Jul 6, 2006 17:14:12 GMT -5
Thing is Erik, the day America forces Christ on its citizens is the day the masses realise how mcuh better Canada really is. As I told my father, if America screws up again on the ecological or religious front, I'd love to switch citizenship.
Christianity is on the decline wordlwide, in numbers at least. If the Conservative party doesnt act fast, they'll lose the opportunity forever to reinstate state religion.
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Post by Huang Zhong on Jul 7, 2006 9:44:16 GMT -5
They don't have to force Christ on the population. Cause America is a Christian State. All the "God bless America" bullshit proves that. All you tweeds should be Christians... Just like your ancestors.
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Post by General Pang on Jul 7, 2006 11:13:03 GMT -5
They don't have to force Christ on the population. Cause America is a Christian State. All the "God bless America" bullshit proves that. All you tweeds should be Christians... Just like your ancestors. Americans have certain values. Moral Christianity and Democracy are two ideals that Americans like. Not all Americans of course but most. :/
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Post by Huang Zhong on Jul 9, 2006 5:35:54 GMT -5
So?
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Post by General Pang on Jul 9, 2006 12:15:36 GMT -5
So most Americans suck.
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Post by Huang Zhong on Jul 9, 2006 12:43:33 GMT -5
No, ALL Americans suck.
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